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One of the more common topic discussions in poly circles is how to "convert" someone to polyamory. The vast majority of poly veterans will tell you that you can't "convert" someone, you can only offer polyamory as an alternative, explain what it is, and let them decide if they want to try it or not. We all know the experience of banging our heads against a brick wall trying to "change" someone into being the person we think they ought to be. It's an exercise in frustration, pain, and heartache ... on both sides. But more than just being a pain in the ass to drag someone, kicking and screaming, into a poly relationship, I think it's inherently a devaluing and dismissive perspective.
There seems to be this either/or false dichotomy thing happening every time the subject of "conversion" comes up. I usually see only 2 options being presented: 1) "explain" polyamory to people who don't get it; 2) "convert" people who aren't poly into being poly *with you*. Very few people seem to have any motivation to "convert" people to being polyamorous whom they have no personal interest in dating. The first option, I have no problem with. In fact, I'm a pretty strong advocate of the first option. The second option seems to have the underlying assumption that if one falls in love with a mono person, one must necessarily change that person into a poly person because the only option is to date them.
*That's* the part I'm having a problem with. One of the things that I dislike about monogamous culture is the devaluing of all relationships that aren't on-the-way-to-marriage-romantic-relationships. If you're not on that "first comes love, then comes marriage, then comes baby in the baby carriage" track, that relationship doesn't "count" or is less or something. That very idea is exactly why I'm poly in the first place. I'm seeing that same sentiment in poly circles every time the subject of "conversion" comes up.
Franklin says "it's possible to really and truly love someone and still not make a good partner for them." I've seen more unnecessary heartache from people trying to force their relationships into something it doesn't want to be, than from any other thing that people do to each other in romantic relationships. It is inherently disrespectful, which, IMO, is incompatible with "love".
If you want to explain polyamory to people so that they'll understand you and who you are, great. I'm all for that. I expend a great deal of my time and efforts doing just that. If you meet someone who has never heard of polyamory but, after learning about it from you, thinks it's something he wants to give a try even though it might be hard work on his part, great. I support people exploring themselves and challenging their assumptions.
But I do not agree with the idea that we have to date everyone we take a fancy to just because we fancy them, I do not agree with the idea that when we love someone, there is only one kind of relationship we absolutely must have with them or else we'll die of longing, and I do not agree with trying to date someone who *fundamentally* wants a different relationship than you are willing to offer. I don't agree when monogamous people date polys for the purpose of trying to convert us back to monogamy (cowboys) and I don't agree when we do it to them. We do not have to force everyone we like into a relationship that doesn't fit them, i.e. a romantic relationship.
Turn the scenario around. How many of you, who see nothing wrong with using your infatuation with someone to justify trying to shoehorn them into a relationship that you want, but they don't, how many of you would feel totally OK with a monogamous person trying to do it to you? How many of you do NOT think "it's just a phase, eventually you'll realize that I'm enough for you and that I'm The One" is disrespecting or dismissing your poly nature and your own desires for what you want out of a relationship (remember, the assumption is that you *inherently* want polyamory, not that you can do either/or - if you could be happy with either, then you are not equivalent to the issue at hand)?
I would posit that those who are both OK with trying to remake their partners into their own ideal image of a poly person and who also have no problem with their partners trying to remake them into the ideal monogamous person have some serious problems with identity or self-esteem or insecurity - problems that are too big for me to address in a blog post or comments thread. I would also posit that such a relationship would be fundamentally combative and contentious. I would then further suggest that those are people whose ideas for relationships are not people we should be heeding if we want healthy relationships.
If you truly value them as a person, then find a relationship that FITS. If that means you have to be friends with someone because they are neato but not poly, then maybe they'll change their minds after a few years of observing how well poly works for you, but at least you won't be playing Pygmalion and doing the bullshit "I love everything about you, now change the very core of who you are for me" game. I hate it when monogamists do it to each other, I hate it when women do it to men, I hate it when men do it to women, I hate it when monogamists try to do it to polys, and I hate it when polys try to do it to monos.
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DATE EVERYONE YOU FIND ATTRACTIVE, and I would suggest that attempting to do so would fall under a pathology, similar to believing you have to date everyone who is interested in you. Explain, offer resources, assist when assistance is requested. But don't try to *change* someone unless they have specifically asked for your help in changing. I'm hard-pressed to come up with anything more disrespectful and devaluing than trying to "change" or "fix" someone who isn't actively involved in their own self-growth process, short of actual abuse.
Show people a possible path, and let them stroll down it, or not, as they see fit. Hand them a water bottle, recommend a good pair of walking shoes, suggest a walking stick, but don't stick a gun in their back and tell them that they must go down that path because that's the path you're on, and YOU want them to walk with you. That's not a companion, that's a hostage.
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There seems to be this either/or false dichotomy thing happening every time the subject of "conversion" comes up. I usually see only 2 options being presented: 1) "explain" polyamory to people who don't get it; 2) "convert" people who aren't poly into being poly *with you*. Very few people seem to have any motivation to "convert" people to being polyamorous whom they have no personal interest in dating. The first option, I have no problem with. In fact, I'm a pretty strong advocate of the first option. The second option seems to have the underlying assumption that if one falls in love with a mono person, one must necessarily change that person into a poly person because the only option is to date them.
*That's* the part I'm having a problem with. One of the things that I dislike about monogamous culture is the devaluing of all relationships that aren't on-the-way-to-marriage-romantic-relationships. If you're not on that "first comes love, then comes marriage, then comes baby in the baby carriage" track, that relationship doesn't "count" or is less or something. That very idea is exactly why I'm poly in the first place. I'm seeing that same sentiment in poly circles every time the subject of "conversion" comes up.
Franklin says "it's possible to really and truly love someone and still not make a good partner for them." I've seen more unnecessary heartache from people trying to force their relationships into something it doesn't want to be, than from any other thing that people do to each other in romantic relationships. It is inherently disrespectful, which, IMO, is incompatible with "love".If you want to explain polyamory to people so that they'll understand you and who you are, great. I'm all for that. I expend a great deal of my time and efforts doing just that. If you meet someone who has never heard of polyamory but, after learning about it from you, thinks it's something he wants to give a try even though it might be hard work on his part, great. I support people exploring themselves and challenging their assumptions.
But I do not agree with the idea that we have to date everyone we take a fancy to just because we fancy them, I do not agree with the idea that when we love someone, there is only one kind of relationship we absolutely must have with them or else we'll die of longing, and I do not agree with trying to date someone who *fundamentally* wants a different relationship than you are willing to offer. I don't agree when monogamous people date polys for the purpose of trying to convert us back to monogamy (cowboys) and I don't agree when we do it to them. We do not have to force everyone we like into a relationship that doesn't fit them, i.e. a romantic relationship.
Turn the scenario around. How many of you, who see nothing wrong with using your infatuation with someone to justify trying to shoehorn them into a relationship that you want, but they don't, how many of you would feel totally OK with a monogamous person trying to do it to you? How many of you do NOT think "it's just a phase, eventually you'll realize that I'm enough for you and that I'm The One" is disrespecting or dismissing your poly nature and your own desires for what you want out of a relationship (remember, the assumption is that you *inherently* want polyamory, not that you can do either/or - if you could be happy with either, then you are not equivalent to the issue at hand)?
I would posit that those who are both OK with trying to remake their partners into their own ideal image of a poly person and who also have no problem with their partners trying to remake them into the ideal monogamous person have some serious problems with identity or self-esteem or insecurity - problems that are too big for me to address in a blog post or comments thread. I would also posit that such a relationship would be fundamentally combative and contentious. I would then further suggest that those are people whose ideas for relationships are not people we should be heeding if we want healthy relationships.
If you truly value them as a person, then find a relationship that FITS. If that means you have to be friends with someone because they are neato but not poly, then maybe they'll change their minds after a few years of observing how well poly works for you, but at least you won't be playing Pygmalion and doing the bullshit "I love everything about you, now change the very core of who you are for me" game. I hate it when monogamists do it to each other, I hate it when women do it to men, I hate it when men do it to women, I hate it when monogamists try to do it to polys, and I hate it when polys try to do it to monos.
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DATE EVERYONE YOU FIND ATTRACTIVE, and I would suggest that attempting to do so would fall under a pathology, similar to believing you have to date everyone who is interested in you. Explain, offer resources, assist when assistance is requested. But don't try to *change* someone unless they have specifically asked for your help in changing. I'm hard-pressed to come up with anything more disrespectful and devaluing than trying to "change" or "fix" someone who isn't actively involved in their own self-growth process, short of actual abuse.
Show people a possible path, and let them stroll down it, or not, as they see fit. Hand them a water bottle, recommend a good pair of walking shoes, suggest a walking stick, but don't stick a gun in their back and tell them that they must go down that path because that's the path you're on, and YOU want them to walk with you. That's not a companion, that's a hostage.
Related Terms:
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no subject
Date: 7/9/13 07:06 pm (UTC)From:I've tentatively concluded that if a person (and any partners of theirs) aren't pretty much IMMEDIATELY of the opinion "We can DO this? Neat!" then it's best to just pass on by with a friendly wave.
no subject
Date: 7/10/13 03:17 am (UTC)From:Some people might feel that it's worthwhile to swim upstream and struggle with getting a partner to be on-board with polyamory, since there are the occasional success stories with that beginning. But I think relationships have enough of their own challenges without adding to them unnecessarily. As I pointed out in the thread that prompted this whole rant, there are enough people in the world for me to love, I don't need to spend my limited resources on those with a built-in road-blocks.
So, I don't date the monos and I prefer to only date people with a black belt at life. Now to better calibrate my radar for detecting those people and to better distinguish between those who merely resemble a person who has their shit together but who are fundamentally either not poly or masquerading as black belts much like a guy I knew in high school who liked to tell us all how he mastered every martial art ever, was a model for a martial art magazine, and was a secret agent for the government (at 16) because of his awesome martial arts skills. Obviously, he was full of shit. Anyway, I'm rambling.
no subject
Date: 7/10/13 01:41 am (UTC)From:People are dumb.
no subject
Date: 7/10/13 03:23 am (UTC)From:"But I heard from this one guy who dated this girl whose former lover's ex-metamour converted her husband! And I'm afraid of losing this person because I might never find anyone again, so I have to stick it out even though we're not happy and we both want different relationships because, some day, the poly version of the fairy tale ending might happen to me!"
no subject
Date: 7/10/13 09:21 pm (UTC)From:People are dumb.
no subject
Date: 7/10/13 01:21 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 7/10/13 04:38 pm (UTC)From:But, to me, this conversion thing is the same thing as monos not respecting us being poly. It's like saying "I love you, but I think this gay thing is just a phase and I want to turn you straight". Or maybe it's like the religious "hate the sin, love the sinner" dualism that they manage to separate in their minds as the activity being separate from the person.
And yeah, even if you really could "love" someone while wanting to change an integral part of who they are, you don't have to have a romantic relationship with someone just because you love them and/or are sexually attracted to them. That might not be the best relationship for either them or you. This cultural fetish of the All Encompassing Romantic Love being the only acceptable relationship and the one we must all strive for at all costs is horribly damaging. If we could just value a variety of different relationships, maybe we'd stop all this "I love you, now change everything for me". I wonder how much of Limerence would go away if we were not raised to fetishize Twue Wove? If we knew that we could have a relationship with the person we're crushing on, as long as we could choose from a variety of acceptable relationships?
no subject
Date: 7/10/13 04:50 pm (UTC)From: